Journey of Renewed Faith through Adversity
About this episode
Pastor Barry Carpenter of Resurrection Church in Daphne, Alabama, joins Philip Cameron for a candid conversation about one of the most painful and transformative seasons a pastor can face — disaffiliating from a lifelong denominational home. After decades in the Methodist tradition, Barry navigated a costly departure that required him to "pay a ransom," as he describes it, to leave — yet he emerged with a deeper encounter with the Holy Spirit than he had ever known. Barry shares the concept he now calls "the Jesus life" — a call back to the essentials of following Christ beyond any denominational label. Drawing on Thomas à Kempis's fourteenth-century classic The Imitation of Christ, he challenges believers to ask not "Lord, bless what I'm doing" but to seek God's thoughts first. He reflects on the story of John resting on Jesus' breast at the Last Supper, saying, "When you're on the Heart of Jesus, no one will accuse you of being the one that's going to betray him." Philip prophesies over Barry that God will use him as a bridge to lead others into liberty. If you are in the Daphne, Alabama area, visit Resurrection Church at www.resurrectioncc.com. This episode is a lifeline for any pastor or believer standing firm through a dark night of the soul.
Part of our Pastors collection of conversations.
Quotes worth sharing
“He told me the other day, speaking to me in ways that he has never spoken to me — it's the Holy Spirit, I just tell you that — he said, take care of your heart, I'll take care of your influence. You talk to me and people will listen to you.”
“He's calling us all back to the Jesus life — not to the Methodist Church, not to the Catholic Church, but to the Jesus life.”
“I've learned in a world of betrayal, the best place for you to be is to get your head on the heart of Jesus. One ear hears the beating of the heart, one ear hears a whisper from his mouth.”
What's Discussed
Pastor Barry Carpenter of Resurrection Church in Daphne, Alabama, recounts his painful but Spirit-filled journey of disaffiliating from the United Methodist Church after more than two and a half years of struggle. He describes paying a financial "ransom" to leave, grieving deep friendships and a lifetime of denominational investment, yet experiencing what he calls a "rebirth" — a fresh baptism of the Holy Spirit. Barry introduces the concept of "the Jesus life," rooted in Thomas à Kempis's The Imitation of Christ, now the framework for all discipleship at Resurrection Church. He draws on the image of John resting on Jesus' breast at the Last Supper as the model posture for believers in seasons of betrayal and trial. Philip Cameron prophesies that Barry will serve as a bridge leading others into liberty.
- Two and a Half Years of Painful Transition
- Rebirth and Baptism of the Holy Spirit
- Enlarging Borders and God's Influence
- Disaffiliation from the Methodist Church
- The Jesus Life and Imitation of Christ
- Prophetic Word Over Barry's Ministry
- John on Jesus' Breast — Posture in Betrayal
- Encouragement for Pastors in the Storm
Episode Transcript
Auto-generated · click any timestamp to jump the video
Intro
Philip:Hello, my friend. Welcome to Daily Faith. My name is Philip Cameron. And boy, am I pleased to see you here today? We've got some great stuff coming in this program. You are going to love today's show. Barry Carpenter, who is a great man of God, he pastors a church in Daphne, Alabama called Resurrection Church, and I'm not sure that church has been resurrected because of the decisions that this great man of God has made. He had to make some difficult choices and standing against things, and you're gonna learn about that today, which I think is going to help you.
Philip:If you love your pastor, if you care about your pastor, contact him right now and say watch Daily Faith — dailyfaith.tv. He can be sitting in a cafe and dailyfaith.tv, he'll watch the program live with you today. Please do that right now. It'll be a great help.
Philip:Now, one thing — we love being on Daily Faith. I love traveling and preaching, and I love missions. Missions is my heartbeat, the thing that gets me excited. We've been up most of the night last night talking to Moldova. We have a very important phone call this morning with a pastor in Istanbul, Turkey. As you know, we've been working for years — 33 years in Moldova — rescuing girls and putting them back in school, young boys, and turning these young kids into missionaries. Barry has been there several times and has been part with us in this ministry.
Philip:When the war erupted in Ukraine, which is the country next door, we've had a home there for six years. We had to evacuate our girls from Ukraine into Moldova, to our houses in the Vatra village, to keep them safe. So that house is empty. The owner of the house wants to sell it and move — I believe to America — and so we are trying to buy that house. We're $60,000 away from having it bought. So please pray about that.
Philip:Our whole efforts — Andrew was there last week with Chrissy and they went up into Ukraine and they gave out food. They fed a thousand people, and today they're feeding a thousand people there just now. But the other day I got a call from a pastor — actually one of our girls, Catalina, who is one of the leaders in Moldova — got a call from a pastor whose wife is Moldovan. And he says, we are in desperate trouble with this earthquake.
Philip:Now, for those who don't know, Turkey is an Islamic country. Erdogan is the president and he is moving Turkey more and more into the Islamic world and more conservative — restrictive, conservative Islam. So the church is like an orphan child, and it's not easy. I'll say it this way: it's not easy to be a church in Turkey.
Philip:So God began to challenge my faith as to what we could do to help the people of this earthquake. Let me explain to you — they have uncovered 12% of the ruins, dug through 12% of the ruins, and they found 32,000 bodies. It is bitterly cold, and we are hoping that we can help. So this week we're taking two of our vans that have been working in Ukraine and we're driving them all the way down to Istanbul.
Philip:Istanbul is unaffected — the earthquake is on the other side of the country. In Istanbul we're buying tents and blankets and heaters and shipping them with our vehicles all the way across Turkey, right almost to the Syrian border. And this pastor has been designated by the government a hundred families, given an open piece of ground, and we're going to try and help him get tents and get heating systems and blankets to keep these families from freezing to death.
Philip:We are continuing the work in Ukraine. Nothing's changed there. We have two containers there right now with coats — we have 15,000 coats there. But when this came up to me it absolutely blew my mind, and I have not been able to sleep since I heard about this. So please pray.
Philip:Getting back to Ukraine — last week a team went up to Ukraine and they sent me this video, and it'll show you the mess that Ukraine is in by bombs and the madness of Putin. In Turkey it's exactly the same, but it happened by a natural event called an earthquake. Our kids and the van — you'll see in this video — will soon be in earthquake zones feeding and caring for people that have lost everything. Watch this video.
A year ago their world was a happy place. They had jobs, their kids were in school, the corner shop sold bread and cheese and everything else. Their world was just like yours. Until, through the mist and snow, monsters came. The tracks rattled on the ice-packed fields, the guns pointed towards the world they lived in. It took less than a second to obliterate everything that they had spent their lives building. There are no accurate numbers as to how many have died. The end is nowhere in sight.
We have been in Ukraine for years. From the first explosion we were involved. We took this assault personally. The orphan's hands could not stand on the sidelines and do nothing. Our amazing group of young men and women did the unimaginable. Once again they drove into a war zone. Once orphans themselves, they have felt personally the hand of grace and redemption.
To go to this devastated world seems to them as normal as having a meal or going to church. They drove for hours, unable to stop and stretch their legs, as inches on each side of the vehicles were live mines. Every few miles they were stopped at checkpoints by nervous soldiers. They were running along the line between the Russians and Ukrainians. Our team finally reached recently liberated cities still held in the grip of desperation. They had brought food, wood-burning stoves that will save lives in the bitter, deadly cold that is to come.
They brought blankets that to many is the only barrier between survival and death. On a dreary day, within the sound of guns and bombs, the most astonishing thing took place. The rescued became the rescuers. Hundreds waited in the rain, shuffling along in a line that ended up in love — smiles, bread, fish, and the words of care from the heart of the redeemed.
As they traveled they came across bombed-out villages, scarred by the strife of bullets, destroyed by the landslides of death. Their water, electricity, and everything else was gone. But the wood stove had become the guardian against the deadly cold. We know it is impossible for most to even imagine this world. But by giving and praying together for this unfolding tragedy, we can join our hearts and hands to bring the hope that was sent to earth by the living God. If it were us, we would wait in line hoping that someone somewhere was thinking of us. We must go back. Will you send us? Every gift you give allows us to be his hands.
Philip:Everyone see that video? My heart swells with pride for our young folks that risk their lives. I don't know if you noticed or not, but as the van was driving along the road — when they said that they couldn't get out of the van to stretch their legs — it's because there were literally bombs half in the ground sitting with the tails outside. There you go, that's one right there. And they couldn't get out. All along the road there were shells, unexploded shells, and these kids — once orphans themselves — became God's hand extended in Ukraine.
Philip:We need to go back and back and back. This war — there's no answer to this war. There is no answer. And as we go there and care and love and give blankets out, hoping that winter — thankfully so far the winter has not been as bad as what was feared — and we're desperately waiting and looking at the calendar for spring to come. But the food situation is desperate. There's no water there. What Putin's plan is, is to take away the electricity, take away the water, take away the fuel, and the people will starve and freeze to death. And he will — if the weather turns bad, and it could any second, mother nature would do what his bombs can't. So please pray for us right now.
Philip:And as this thing has opened up in Turkey, I don't need any more burdens on my shoulders. I don't need any more things to keep me awake at night. But I do know this: that God has called us to care for the broken. We have the team, we have the machines, we have everything in place in Moldova. We can move and take a team from Moldova all the way down to Istanbul, equip and buy the things we need there, and then send them into the earthquake zone.
Philip:So we're looking right now, as we speak, we need to buy winterized tents right this minute. The pastor I spoke to this morning, who's going to be partnering with us, pastors a great church in Turkey. He called us personally. We spent about an hour FaceTiming him, and he has gone to find out — he reckons that a big family tent is two thousand dollars. I can't help but think we can find one for less money in America. And so we're just going to be praying and asking God and asking you to help us.
Philip:To be God's hand extended — you can help us today. Any gift you give, you can say this is for Ukraine or this is for the earthquake. Just make sure you designate it and it will go into that area and that's where it will be used. Our address is The Orphan's Hands, PO Box 25, Clinton, Tennessee 37716. That'll be up at the end of the program. The quickest way you can do this right now is dailyfaith.tv — there's a giving page and you can wire us funds right now.
Philip:Within the next couple of days we will have found a source of tents, and we're talking today or tomorrow to the Embassy in Atlanta — the Turkish Embassy. They told us in Moldova to contact the Turkish Embassy in America and they can give us paperwork. They will allow us to get the container straight in, straight on the truck, and straight down to where these people are. So that's something else we've got. So please pray for us. We are on the front line of caring for people. We are helping — my passion is to help the church, the Christian church, that lives very difficult lives and existences in Turkey. And I don't want to say more than that, but I hope you know what I'm saying.
Philip:My friend today has been with me in Moldova. He is one of my foundation partners, not just for the ministry in giving but also for my heart, and every time I talk to him it gives me a dancing heart. He knows God — oh my goodness, he knows God. Barry Carpenter, I love you and I'm so honored to have you on Daily Faith today. God bless you, my friend. How are you doing?
Barry Carpenter:I'm wonderful, I'm wonderful. It's great to be with you. My heart and my mind are enlarged just hearing you. God has deposited with you great vision. I love to be in the company of people who have vision, and so I'm enriched. Thank you so much.
Two and a Half Years of Painful Transition
Philip:I'm going to tell on you. You, of all the gifts we've had in Moldova — you've been there — the last time you went to Moldova, I do believe you have the record for having the shortest stay in Moldova of all time. You arrived in the morning and the government says we're closing down the borders, and you had to leave that night. You made yourself come back across, and I said to Andrew, he will never ever come back. He's only spent 12 hours in Moldova. And here you are today saying, how can I get involved? How can I get to Turkey? How can I get involved in Moldova? I love men like you that have a spirit and a passion for the Lord Jesus.
Philip:I want to talk to you just for a few minutes — we've got about 12 minutes today. I want to talk to you about an experience that you as a pastor have gone through. You were brought up in the Methodist tradition — tremendous, the Wesley brothers. So tell us about the experience you've just gone through, because I know there are pastors watching this, and how God brought you through this and where you are today.
Barry Carpenter:Thank you for the opportunity to share with you. What has happened in my life and in the lives of people around me in the last two and a half years has been life-changing for me. A lot of obstructions, a lot of difficulty, a lot of pain and grief — actually a lot of grief. But it is all good. The Holy Spirit has revealed to me things in my life now that I've never experienced, and I would call it — you want to call it a second blessing, rebirth, baptism of the Holy Spirit. This happened to me again, or maybe for the first time. I come into a relationship with God through difficulty.
Rebirth and Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Barry Carpenter:Obstructions and difficulties — it's not the problem. God uses those to bring us into greater awareness. You know that person in Chronicles that talks about Jabez and his prayer? He asked God to enlarge his borders. You know that — we've all, you said, sometimes we've just taken that selfishly: enlarge my borders. Well, the thing is God wants to enlarge your borders, your influence. And my influence for his good and his glory.
Barry Carpenter:He told me the other day, speaking to me in ways that he has never spoken to me — it's the Holy Spirit, I just tell you that — he said, take care of your heart, I'll take care of your influence. You talk to me and people will listen to you. Those are words that ring true to me. My first job is to love Jesus. But there are four words that I told Philip sort of characterized my position in the church. I am Evangelical — I believe in proclamation of the Gospel, that's our mission. I am Ecumenical — I'm not the only Christian, my church isn't the only Christian. I love the Pentecostals, I love the Catholics who love Jesus. Jesus is the foundation. I'm Sacramental and I'm Pentecostal and I'm Methodist, but most of all I'm a Jesus follower.
Enlarging Borders and God's Influence
Barry Carpenter:The one thing that came out of everything that's happened to us — we left the Methodist Church with great grief, great sorrow. Many friends and a long journey of education, you know, seminaries and graduate degrees, all that stuff that they helped with, and that long process to become an elder in that church. And it's gone. And we had to raise a lot of money to leave and pay a ransom, so to speak. But I love them, and I wrote to my bishop and I thanked him. I thanked him for the journey and for what I've learned, because God has used it for good.
Barry Carpenter:And he's been doing a rebirth in me. But what's come out of this is what we call now — and I wrote about it, maybe it'll become a book someday — the Jesus life. He's calling us all back to the Jesus life, not to the Methodist Church, not to the Catholic Church, but to the Jesus life. I'm reading now again the book I read as a young boy, by Thomas à Kempis in the 14th century, that has become the number one book published in the world second to the Bible, and that is The Imitation of Christ. Well, how do we imitate him? How do we do what Philip is talking about? How do we worship, how do we learn, how do we serve, how do we give? All that is part of the Jesus life.
Barry Carpenter:So I've written this and now all of our groups — from diapers to diplomas — it's all about training children, training adults: how do I live the Jesus life? So our exit, our disaffiliation, has produced in us a new passion. Not in everybody, however — some have left my church, and some are mad at me, for various reasons. People who did not see this vision. But it has erupted in a flow of the Holy Spirit that amazes me. But my heart is where Philip's heart is, and that is with the world.
Barry Carpenter:Jesus loves the world. God so loved the world — not my backyard, not my church, not me alone, but the world. And so as a boy — as I watched you, as I watched you agonize over this decision to follow your heart and what you know the word of God says, rather than the connections of the earth and the relationships you've built over your life and ministry — there comes a point when you've got to stand with what the word of God says and not go down a path that is leading directly away from his heart.
Disaffiliation from the Methodist Church
Philip:And I know this: here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. And that's what happens — you come to a point, God takes you to a point where you say, well, I'm sorry, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, but this is not the way for me. And I prayed with you and for you as you agonized through the process. And when we talked and reconnected today, and I heard the interest — because my background is Pentecostal and I can learn so much from you, from what you have gone through in the training of the church — but when I hear you talking about the infilling of the Holy Ghost, let me tell you something: I believe that the greatest days of your ministry are yet to come. I believe that God is going to use you in ways that you have never imagined.
Philip:I see this and I prophesy this — and if you know me, I'm not lightly prophetic. Unless God tells me, I don't. God is going to use you as a bridge, a link between what is and what was, and you're going to have the honor of being the contact person that will lead others to liberty and to the truth. And what the devil has meant for evil, God is going to turn it for good in the name of Jesus. So I pray this over you: that no weapon formed against you will prosper, that no stone or sling or spear or sword will ever be pointed at you and succeed, because God is on your side. And if God is for you, who can be against you? And I release upon you a fresh new empowering of the Holy Ghost like you've never known before, in the name of Jesus. In the name of Jesus. Hallelujah.
Barry Carpenter:I'm so grateful for that. The Holy Spirit is my constant companion like never in my life, like never in my life. My constant companion — I pray to him. I pray to him: in the last 24 hours, dominate me, control me. My words are your words. Just use every breath I have for you.
Philip:So there's a pastor watching just now and he's going through the same exact situation you are in, or something similar. And it's gut-check time and it's trial time. It's the night time. There's a course of priests that went into the temple in the night time and they praised God and worshiped God in the night, when it was against every natural response of their body. But they praised God in the night, and they're there right now. Give us — we've got three minutes left — give us a word for them to encourage them to stand in the storm.
Barry Carpenter:Well, it has been the habit and the experience of many Christians to love Jesus in the dark. The cross and others have written about the dark night of the soul. Mother Teresa — I've just read a book on Mother Teresa's secret. For her whole life it was about travail and the darkness that she felt, and loving Jesus. Her vow was: I will love Jesus no matter what. Harnessed to his purposes and harnessed to his person — to the person of Jesus Christ. That's the dominating force in the life of a child of the kingdom of God.
The Jesus Life and Imitation of Christ
Barry Carpenter:The kingdom is here now. We are people of the kingdom, and that kingdom is cosmic. It is cosmic — not this world but other worlds, and to all the people that are on other worlds, if there are any anywhere else, Jesus is Lord of all of them. And he's Lord of this world. So when — the night that Jesus was betrayed, he said, one of you will betray me. And they all began to give their defense: not me, not I. And then they said, ask John to ask Jesus who it is.
Prophetic Word Over Barry's Ministry
Barry Carpenter:You know why they asked John? You know where John was? John was on Jesus' breast. He was a heart brother. When you're on the heart of Jesus, no one will accuse you of being the one that's going to betray him. And they asked John to ask Jesus who's going to betray him. And I've learned in a world of betrayal, the best place for you to be is to get your head on the heart of Jesus. One ear hears the beating of the heart, one ear hears a whisper from his mouth.
Barry Carpenter:When you're there, we get to hear the secrets of God, and our heads and our hearts become the seedbed of his thoughts. He plants his seeds, his ideas, in our head and says, this is what I want to do in the world — now you help me with that. Instead of us saying, Lord, bless what I'm doing, I want his thoughts. I want his thoughts to permeate me. Then I can partner with Philip Cameron and Methodists and Pentecostals and Catholics all over the world, all thinking his thoughts. And there's the unity in the body of Christ, because we all think his thoughts. Let this mind be in you — that's the key.
Philip:Listen, if you are anywhere in the Daphne area, I want you to go and meet my friend. Resurrection Church is on Main Street in Daphne, Alabama. The website is really simple: www.resurrectioncc.com — go this week. And if you go, tell them I saw you on Daily Faith with Philip. I don't know a man — now listen to me, coming from me, you better listen to me — I don't know a man that follows Jesus any harder than Barry. We love you. Time has gone. Pray for us going to Turkey. Barry, I know you'll be part of it. Help us in Ukraine and Turkey. Bye-bye for today.
John on Jesus' Breast — Posture in Betrayal
For over 25 years the Cameron family has been changing the lives of orphans in Romania and Moldova, from providing running water, flushing toilets, and clean wells, to coal for heat, new windows, as well as food and clothing. They championed the physical needs of the orphans in these broken and desolate countries. Many of Moldova's orphans are saved from the horrors of trafficking through homes founded by the Camerons. And in the process, orphans become daughters and sons. They come to know their heavenly Father and are forever changed by the love of Jesus.
God helped the Camerons lift these amazing young men and women out of darkness. Now no longer orphans, they want to return and invade that very same darkness with the light of Jesus Christ. The Orphan's Hands equips these daughters and sons to become missionaries. Your monthly gift of $31 will allow us to rescue and take in more girls and boys, saving them from the hell of human trafficking. Your monthly partnership will allow us to care for those in The Orphan's Hands homes in Moldova and Ukraine.
Encouragement for Pastors in the Storm
If you want to join Philip and Chrissy in taking care of these precious young people, please contact us today by calling 833-DAILY-FAITH. You can also give by going online to www.dailyfaith.tv, or by writing to PO Box 25, Clinton, Tennessee 37716. So many lives depend on what we do. Thank you for loving the lost.
Common questions
Why did Barry Carpenter leave the Methodist Church?
Barry left with great grief and sorrow after a painful disaffiliation process that cost his church a significant sum of money — what he called "paying a ransom" to leave. He felt compelled to stand by what he believed the Word of God says rather than continue down a path he saw leading away from God's heart. Despite the pain, he wrote to his bishop to thank him for the journey.
What is the "Jesus life" that Barry talks about?
Barry describes the "Jesus life" as a call back to the core of Christian living — worshiping, learning, serving, and giving — rather than loyalty to any particular denomination. Inspired by Thomas à Kempis's "The Imitation of Christ," he has built his church's entire discipleship program around it, from children to adults, asking the question: how do I imitate Jesus in everyday life?
What spiritual transformation did Barry experience through all the difficulty?
Barry says the last two and a half years of obstruction and grief led to what he describes as a rebirth or fresh baptism of the Holy Spirit — something he says may have happened for the first time in a real way. He now experiences the Holy Spirit as a constant companion and prays daily for the Spirit to dominate and control every word he speaks.
What advice does Barry give to pastors going through a dark or difficult season?
Barry points to the example of John at the Last Supper — John was resting on Jesus' chest, which is why no one suspected him of betrayal. Barry's counsel is to get your head on the heart of Jesus: one ear hears his heartbeat, the other hears his whisper. In a world of betrayal and darkness, closeness to Jesus is the safest and most fruitful place to be.
How does Barry define Christian unity across different denominations?
Barry sees unity coming not from shared church affiliation but from shared thinking — letting the mind of Christ permeate believers across traditions. He identifies as Evangelical, Ecumenical, Sacramental, Pentecostal, and Methodist, but says above all he is a Jesus follower, and believes that when Catholics, Pentecostals, Methodists, and others all seek God's thoughts rather than their own agendas, genuine unity in the body of Christ follows.
Topics
barry carpenterresurrection churchmethodist disaffiliationholy spirit renewalpastoral testimonythe jesus lifedaphne alabama