Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the cross.
Effective Succession in Ministry: 7 Keys from Pastor Dennis Gingerich
About this episode
Pastor Dennis Gingerich joins Philip Cameron to share the hard-won wisdom behind one of the most remarkable pastoral succession stories in modern American church life. Gingerich founded Cape Coral's Destiny Church in 1987 and, at just 55 years old, made the courageous decision to hand the lead role to a 32-year-old successor — the same age Gingerich himself was when he planted the church. What followed was not decline but explosive growth: from 1,000 weekend attenders to more than 4,000 regularly, with a single weekend recently drawing 7,000 across seven services. Gingerich traces the journey back to reading Bob Buford's book "Halftime" at age 48, which prompted him to ask a new question: "What does the church look like five years after I'm out of the lead seat?" That reframe became the foundation of his seven keys to intentional legacy leaving, including the conviction that "maximizing your impact means you have to minimize your own ego," a principle he anchors in Philippians 2:5-8. He also draws on Jim Collins and John Maxwell's five levels of leadership, and closes with a phrase that captures his philosophy: "My fruit tastes better on the trees of others." Whether you are a founding pastor, a board member, or a church leader thinking about the next generation, this conversation will challenge and equip you. Learn more at successfulsuccessions.com and dennisgingrich.com.
Part of our Pastors collection of conversations.
Quotes worth sharing
“I began to fast forward in my mind — not was this church plant a success and everything going up and to the right when I'm in the lead seat, but how about five years after I'm out of the lead seat? Is it still happening? What would it take for that to happen? And that's the new measurement of success I looked at.”
“Maximizing your impact means you have to minimize your own ego. I think what I've learned is your impact will soar upward if your ego will go downward. And that is the truth.”
“My fruit tastes better on the trees of others. It's good to see my own fruit, but you know what, it's great to see my fruit growing on the trees of others.”
What's Discussed
Pastor Dennis Gingerich, founder of Destiny Church in Cape Coral, Florida (launched Easter Sunday 1987), shares how reading Bob Buford's "Halftime" at age 48 and "The Elephant in the Boardroom" sparked a five-year succession plan. At 55, he handed the lead role to a 32-year-old pastor, remaining on the church board for 14 years to support three successive lead pastors. Attendance grew from 1,000 to over 4,000 regularly, with a recent single weekend drawing 7,000 across seven services. Gingerich outlines seven keys: intentional legacy leaving, Level 5 leadership, long-term over short-term wins, the mission is bigger than me, minimizing ego to maximize impact, choosing to be rewired by the Holy Spirit (Philippians 2:5-8), and bearing fruit on the trees of others.
- Founding Destiny Church Cape Coral 1987
- Reading Halftime and Succession Awakening
- Five-Year Plan and First Leadership Handoff
- Measuring Success After the Lead Seat
- Church Growth Across Three Pastors
- Seven Keys to Intentional Legacy Leaving
- Ego Minimized Impact Maximized
- Fruit Tastes Better on Others Trees
Scripture in this episode
Episode Transcript
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Intro
Philip:Hey, I'm Philip Cameron and welcome to Daily Faith. We have got a great program for you today. Don't you go anywhere. If you love your pastor, he needs to watch this program. We are gonna be talking with Dennis Gingerich, who founded a fabulous church, one of the most successful churches in the country.
Philip:And when he was still, in my books, a young man, God challenged him to begin the process of handing the church off to the next generation. And he has remained in this church. This church has had three pastors come, and he has gone through three different pastors as the church has continued to grow. And you're gonna hear how the Lord has helped him to do this. And I believe that this is a key to the generational blessing of the church. The church has got to go past where it is today. If a church only stays as strong as the pastor is there, then it's built on a man and not on the anointing, in the presence of God.
Philip:And so we have got so much to learn on this. I lunched a few weeks ago down in Cape Coral, and he set my hair on fire. I'm telling you now, just telling me what God showed him to do and how to do it. And I'm in that stage right now. I'm 68 in a few weeks. I'm gonna be 68, the 27th — mark your calendars. 27th of April. Put it down there, and you can send me a card if you want. But I'm in that situation where my kids are coming in and they've been working with me for years now. And my son Andrew has just been in Turkey and Moldova. So we are at that point now of letting them do more of the work than I am. So this subject really is close to my heart. And if you love your pastor, listen to me — you don't want your church to fail at this point.
Philip:It's time to grow forward and not get to one point and then start going downhill. How many churches do you know that this has happened to? So you're gonna love this program today. We just had some pictures sent — this will blow your mind. You also watch Daily Faith. We do mission work in Eastern Europe. 24 years ago, I adopted a little boy called Andrew in an orphanage, starving to death. I picked him up and I made this ridiculous promise. I'll never forget you. I'm coming back to get you. It took me a year to go back to get him out of that orphanage.
Philip:But in the year that happened, there were no toilets, no beds. I fixed the roof, I painted the place, and I fixed the whole place up and got addicted to caring for these kids. And God used that little boy, 34 years ago, to change my life, change my ministry. It's incredible. So I love doing Daily Faith, I love traveling and preaching, but oh, I love what I do in missions. And these kids that we've rescued — when a girl turns 16 in the orphanages over there, they give them a bus ticket to where they come from, the name on their birth certificate, and they put them on the streets and traffickers get them, use them 30 to 50 times a day. One girl can make $300,000 a year for her trafficker. And these kids come to us, we put them back in school, share the gospel with them.
Philip:And they have absolutely turned from orphans to sons and daughters, and from sons and daughters to missionaries. And for this last year, we've had a crazy year this last 12 months. Just a little over a year ago, you know what happened? Russia invaded Ukraine. We have a home in Ukraine, and we had to evacuate our girls from Ukraine back to Moldova, to our main place, which is Vatra Village. It's a beautiful place with six houses, a gorgeous facility that we have there. And those Ukrainian girls are still there as we speak.
Philip:But what happens is our kids are continually taking these trips up into Ukraine at tremendous risk. In fact, the other night, one of our young ladies, Catalina, called me in the middle of the night on FaceTime, and she says, dad, listen, listen. And she put the phone out the window of the house that we have. They were staying there for the night, and you could hear the sirens going off in the distance because there were missile attacks. And here we had these kids in the middle of this war zone, giving out some of the coats. Our ministers giving over 15,000 coats away,
Philip:plus thousands of blankets, and hundreds of tons of food, all through the hands of orphans. And they just sent me some pictures — I don't know if they're showing them to you right now or not — but that is them two days ago in Odessa. I believe they were in two different cities. And that's our kids, orphan kids, giving out coats on a very cold day in Odessa two days ago. And they just contacted me last night. I couldn't rest. And I said, whenever you get back into Moldova through the border, call me and let me know you're safe. And so our kids, orphan kids, have become God's hand extended, and we are just so proud of them. And they are literally going into areas where bombs and bullets rain continuously.
Philip:And it's just a miraculous thing. So that's one of the things we've been doing this last year. And then a few weeks ago, you know what happened in Turkey? The worst natural disaster that's ever happened took place in Turkey about a month ago now. 50,000 people were killed instantly. And they've only managed to excavate about 20% of the buildings, and they've found 50,000 bodies. This is a disaster beyond anything. And the news never talks about it. It blows my mind.
Philip:And this pastor from Istanbul, his wife is Moldovan, watched what we've been doing in Ukraine, and she contacted us and says, can you please help us? We need tents and we need food. And we sent one of our teams — they went from Moldova, got in one of our vans, and drove from Moldova through Romania, Bulgaria, down to Eastern Turkey, where they met my son Andrew, and then drove 10 to 12 more hours down to where the earthquake was. And that's them loading up our van with care packages. One of those packages costs us $30. It's 40 pounds of food.
Philip:And we got a phone call just the other day from this pastor. All the tents we bought — these family tents that hold eight people — there they are. And all of those tents are full, and they need more tents, and they are starving. And I don't know how to say this nicely, but our concern is the Christian church in Turkey is not treated very well. That's all I can say — you know what I'm talking about. And we are working to get another, and my son's going back again to buy more tents and more food. So if you can help us, please make a difference in these folks' lives.
Philip:In the middle of all this, a widow contacted us and she says, my kids are freezing, my husband's dead. She's got four kids. Her name is Rodica. And in the middle of all the work they're doing in Turkey and Ukraine, our kids called and said, please, dad, let us help. And they sent me this video of orphans changing a widow's life. Watch this.
The widow who lived in a house with walls and floors made from mud and dung, with the glass in the doors broken, and the frigid air that has no mercy for her young family existing there, along with four kids whose future was being robbed every day by the awful grip of poverty. The war's hands are fighting bigger battles than what Rodica faced.
Individually, we continue to bring aid to the untold thousands of refugee families in Ukraine and those who are stranded in Moldova. Our plate is full. But when her plight was brought to us, we could not ignore her need and say we couldn't help. We know we must do something to alleviate the suffering of her and her four precious kids. In the past, we have repaired homes where families suffer by what we call a miraculous makeover. We decided to do the same for this broken family. It is a privilege to be part of such a miracle.
Hands on, our young men and women from Vatra Village worked hard to give Rodica and her family a place they can now call home. They got to let her know that she's loved by God and his people. We repaired her broken walls, filled the broken windows with new glass, and in only a few days transformed her despair to joy — new beds, tables, chairs, rugs, and a new sofa. We were able to bless them because you care, and your giving made it possible. We know God's heart will be moved by your sacrifice. We love your heart for others. Thank you.
Philip:It is amazing to watch orphan kids that have been rejected by everybody in their life — you're nothing, you're garbage, nothing plus nothing will always be nothing, no one wants you, the workers in the orphanage, your father doesn't want you, your mother doesn't want you — and suddenly discover that God wants them and God needs them. And it is just an amazing thing. We need your help. We need your help. We are extended way beyond what a ministry of our size should be. We act like a big ministry even though we're not. And we are believing God for these tents. One tent is costing us $620.
Philip:One 40-pound box of food is costing us $30. And if you'd like to help us today, if you'd like to help us in Ukraine, any gift — if you earmark a gift, that money will go to that ministry that we're doing. And we just need you to help us. Our address is very simple: PO Box 25, the Orphan's Hands, PO Box 25, Clinton, Tennessee 37716. And you can change someone's life. You absolutely can. These young folk need sponsors. We take them in from the orphanage — they've never seen a doctor, never seen an eye doctor, never seen a dentist.
Philip:We pay for their tuition at university. It costs about $3,000 a month for bus tickets to send them all over to the city every day, with a lunch, pocket money to buy the lunch. And we need folk just like you. If you are looking to invest money in the kingdom of God, good soil will produce a harvest. This is good soil. And these kids that you're looking at in these videos are demonstrating the love of God in action. And your giving can help tremendously. Please feel free to visit dailyfaith.tv, and that's also another way you can help us.
Philip:I am so excited to have my guest with you today. We went down to Cape Coral, Florida, one of the most gorgeous places in the world. I'm so jealous, it's not even funny. And we had a great lunch and we went down to meet Corey, the pastor of the church. And this guy Dennis showed up, and at the end of the lunch I just wanted to talk to him because he founded this church many years ago and has handed it off to another pastor and has been there to support and guard and strengthen three pastors in this church.
Philip:It's an amazing church. Thousands of people attend it. And I just wanted him to come on Daily Faith today and show us and help us understand the power of succession, how you can bless your next generation. And that is what Dennis, I believe, is going to share with us. Dennis, it is great to be with you today. Thank you for joining us on Daily Faith.
Dennis Gingerich:It's good to be with you, Philip. And it was great to spend time with you and Andrew for lunch. And I thoroughly enjoyed learning about your ministry, and just seeing the videos and things you just showed just touches my heart. It's pretty cool.
Philip:Great. God's looking for people that are available. That's the qualification he's looking for.
Dennis Gingerich:That's correct. Your availability.
Philip:And we sure are available. Please tell us — and I'm really fascinated about this — you started a church in Cape Coral, and when you were still what I would look at as a young man, God spoke to you about transition and the beginning of this process. Tell us how that developed in your spirit.
Founding Destiny Church Cape Coral 1987
Dennis Gingerich:Well, how it developed was, actually, I was 48 at the time when I read Bob Buford's book called Halftime. And it's really written to leaders, helping them move from success to significance. But for me, it touched me in a totally different way. I felt like I was living with significance in every way. But it helped me to think about my last half. And I have seen plenty of churches where the pastors stay on maybe too long, and the church hits a peak and starts on a decline.
Dennis Gingerich:And sometimes they recover with new leadership, sometimes they don't. And I thought, what a shame — we moved here to Cape Coral, Florida in 1986, launched the church on Easter Sunday of '87. So this past Sunday was our 36th anniversary as a church, but we moved here 37 years ago to lay the foundation. I said, what a shame to see my major life work — I had pastored seven years previous to that — but to see my major life work decline if I was in my seventies, eighties and watching that happen. What would that feel like? And I knew that wouldn't feel good.
Reading Halftime and Succession Awakening
Dennis Gingerich:So I started — I was 48 at the time — started thinking about it. And actually by the age of 50, I came across a book called The Elephant in the Boardroom — what no church ever talks about. And that was about succession. And it stirred me in such a way, I bought it for all of our board members at the time and asked them to read it. And so it was a five-year process. I had a young leader that was with me in his late twenties. And by the time I was 55 — some people thought I was too young when I was 55 — I handed it off to him, who was 32. That was the age I was when I started the church, and I handed it off to him.
Five-Year Plan and First Leadership Handoff
Dennis Gingerich:And we were averaging about a thousand in attendance on the weekends. And he said to me, I'm not gonna do this if you're gonna leave. And I said, well, I really would love to stay. I'd love to be a part of it and not be in the lead seat, but help you, help it to be a success all the way through. This is my dream, my vision of staying. I think it can be done. He said, I think it can too.
Dennis Gingerich:And so together we developed a process that was kind of an emergency thing in the beginning — what if something happened to me suddenly? The rest of it was really a long-term plan. And I began to fast forward in my mind — not was this church plant a success and everything going up and to the right when I'm in the lead seat, but how about five years after I'm out of the lead seat? Is it still happening? What would it take for that to happen? And that's the new measurement of success I looked at.
Dennis Gingerich:For a church plant, it was not what does it look like when I'm in the lead seat, but what does it look like when I'm out of the lead seat? Five years from now, 14 years later. And it's an amazing success. So under that first leader, it went from a thousand average attendance on the weekends to 2,000 in the next five years. And he stayed about five, five and a half years in the lead role, a total of about 12 years here. And then we had another pastor for two years, grew another 500. And now Pastor Corey's been here five years, and we regularly just hit over 4,000 on regular weekends. Last weekend we had 7,000 people here.
Measuring Success After the Lead Seat
Philip:Oh my goodness.
Dennis Gingerich:In our seven services weekend. And I get to just be a part of it, but I don't have to leave it. And intentional legacy leaving is really rewarding. It has its tests to it, but it's really rewarding to see it — there are a lot more rewards than tests.
Philip:You have seven keys and I have them here. Let's go through them quickly — we have about eight minutes left. Tell us the seven keys that God gives you to have a successful succession.
Church Growth Across Three Pastors
Dennis Gingerich:Well, that first one really is just that intentional legacy leaving is rewarding. I just mentioned that. And I'd say the second one is that, you know, Jim Collins and John Maxwell taught me about leadership and the five levels of leadership. Level five leadership is where you serve others and you empower those under you, and you find ways to give away the credit and all of that. I'd just say that's the pinnacle of success — to be at a point where you don't need to get the credit anymore, it's not about you.
Seven Keys to Intentional Legacy Leaving
Philip:So true.
Dennis Gingerich:It's about the other team. And then the other thing I've learned is that long-term successes are really superior to the short-term wins.
Philip:Wow, I love that.
Dennis Gingerich:The short-term wins are great, but now I can say, 14 years later after getting out of the lead seat, the long-term successes are far superior to those short-term wins. And then the other thing that really struck me then, and I could say it in the beginning but now I really know it, is that the mission is bigger than me. I said it early, I meant it early, but now I can actually grasp it in its fullest. The mission is really bigger than me. And now there's really a movement that's been started here. And it's not about me, and it's awesome.
Dennis Gingerich:Now, I can tell you the other side of this thing — probably why it's not done more often — is that maximizing your impact means you have to minimize your own ego. And I believe those two are mutually exclusive. You can't have them both strongly at the same time. And I think what I've learned is your impact will soar upward if your ego will go downward. And that is the truth. You know, the other thing I hear, Philip, is people say to me, well, I'm just not wired that way. I couldn't do that. It works for you, but I'm just not wired that way. I say, I'm not either. I'm not wired that way. But I can make choices. I can make choices, and I can choose a bigger vision.
Dennis Gingerich:And there are choices that I can make, and I just choose to be rewired by the Holy Spirit. That's what I choose. I choose to follow Philippians chapter two, verse five, where it says, you know, he humbled himself. Jesus took on the form of a servant and he humbled himself. And he didn't count equality with God something to be grasped. And so I choose to humble myself. I choose to be a servant. I choose not to be offended if I'm not honored in the way that maybe my ego says I should be.
Ego Minimized Impact Maximized
Philip:Or you ought to be.
Dennis Gingerich:Yeah. I can choose to kneel and wash the feet of others like Jesus did. And I can choose to leave a legacy. And I often say that the outer work is important — getting things set up in the proper way. We changed our bylaws and all that kind of stuff. That's the outward stuff that we did. So I would stay on the board beyond that, and there would be two pastors on the board — our lead pastor and myself. And I just got off the board for the first time just last December. So I finally moved off the board after 14 years. I'm no longer on the board. But I can choose to leave a legacy. I can choose those things, and I can choose humility.
Dennis Gingerich:And ultimately in that, I've chosen to leave a legacy. And then the last one — I love this, Philip — is my fruit tastes better on the trees of others. It's good to see my own fruit, but you know what, it's great to see my fruit growing on the trees of others.
Fruit Tastes Better on Others Trees
Philip:Oh my goodness.
Dennis Gingerich:And growing and doing well.
Philip:That's a wonderful place to be. Well, I listen — I'm exactly the same. When these kids send me these photographs, the head girl, the leader in Moldova, is a girl called Nadia. And I found her — she's handy, her right hand has only got a thumb, no fingers. She was told every day in the orphanage that you're nothing, you're garbage, you're a freak.
Philip:And this girl has built Vatra Village, fought with builders — I mean, some of the most amazing stuff. And because I believed in her, she just didn't know any better than that she could do it.
Dennis Gingerich:Yes. And that's good proof when you see that growing and thriving.
Philip:The satisfaction that I get — and now my kids talk to them, they're within a few years of each other. So I'm watching the next generation downstream from me, and they make all these decisions and they work together, and they're doing this and coming back to get this done. And the fruit — their fruit tastes better than me having generated it when I watch it coming from there.
Dennis Gingerich:Absolutely.
Philip:Well, I want to thank you. That day we spoke set a bunch of stuff turning over in my mind, and you've really helped me. And I know that our pastors — I want you, if you're watching today, to write this address down: it's www.successfulsuccessions.com. And you need to get in contact with Dennis, and he may have other materials that he can help you with.
Philip:I just — this is so important. His personal website, if you need to get his personal website, is dennisgingerich.com. Dennisgingerich.com.
Dennis Gingerich:And I talk a lot about succession on my personal website too. In fact, I put these seven things on there this morning. They posted — for some reason I couldn't get them on the successfulsuccessions.com one, but they're available there. And there's a lot of leadership stuff that I'm learning as well.
Philip:And also, when you handed off the leadership, you have a photography hobby that is absolutely mind-blowing.
Dennis Gingerich:I do.
Philip:And look at your photography — you gotta check this guy's photographs out, folks. It's www.gingrichphotoart.com, Gingrich Photo Art. My son Andrew loves photography, and he said to me, dad, you should see some of these photographs. So we've been looking at photographs before we came on today. And I just don't like talented people. That's all I gotta say. It just drives me crazy when I see folk that are great pastors, know when to pass it on to someone else, and take the best photographs I've ever seen in my life. You're a blessed man, Dennis. Thank you so much for being on Daily Faith today.
Dennis Gingerich:Great being with you. I hope pastors grab what we've talked about because it will give you blessing in your future.
Philip:Thank you for being with us, Dennis.
Dennis Gingerich:You're most welcome.
Philip:Thank you for watching us. Listen, I need you to get in contact — if you love your pastor, get this information into his hands because he can only grow and stretch, and the church can only fulfill its commitment and its challenge in the world we're living in when we step from glory to glory. We're stepping on the shoulders of each other. We love you. Please pray about helping us in Ukraine and Turkey. We are in a great battle just now financially. Your giving can make a difference in our lives. Thank you again for watching Daily Faith. We'll see you again. Bye-bye.
For over 25 years, the Cameron family has been changing the lives of orphans in Romania and Moldova — from providing running water, flushing toilets, and clean wells, to coal for heat, new windows, as well as food and clothing. They champion the physical needs of the orphans in these broken and desolate countries. Many of Moldova's orphans are saved from the horrors of trafficking through homes founded by the Camerons. And in the process, orphans become daughters and sons. They come to know their heavenly Father and are forever changed by the love of Jesus. God helped the Camerons lift these amazing young men and women out of darkness.
Now no longer orphans, they want to return and invade that very same darkness with the light of Jesus Christ. The Orphan's Hands equips these daughters and sons to become missionaries. Your monthly gift of $31 will allow us to rescue and take in more girls and boys, saving them from the hell of human trafficking. Your monthly partnership will allow us to care for those in the Orphan's Hands homes in Moldova and Ukraine. If you want to join Philip and Chrissy in taking care of these precious young people, please contact us today by calling 833-Daily-Faith. You can also give by going online to www.dailyfaith.tv or by writing to Post Office Box 25, Clinton, Tennessee 37716. So many lives depend on what we do. Thank you for loving the lost.
Common questions
Why did Dennis Gingerich decide to hand off his church when he was only 55?
Dennis was inspired by two books — Bob Buford's 'Halftime' and 'The Elephant in the Boardroom' — which got him thinking about what his church would look like after he stepped down, not just while he was leading it. He had watched other churches peak and decline under long-tenured pastors and didn't want that for his life's major work. By 50 he had shared the books with his board, and by 55 he handed leadership to a 32-year-old he had been developing.
How did the church grow after Dennis stepped down as lead pastor?
When Dennis handed off leadership the church was averaging about 1,000 people on weekends. Under the first successor it grew to 2,000 in five years. A second pastor added another 500, and under current Pastor Corey the church regularly tops 4,000 on a normal weekend — and hit 7,000 across seven services the weekend before the interview.
What are Dennis Gingerich's 7 keys to successful ministry succession?
Dennis outlined them as: (1) intentional legacy-leaving is rewarding; (2) pursue Level 5 leadership — give away credit and empower others; (3) long-term successes are superior to short-term wins; (4) the mission is bigger than you; (5) maximizing your impact requires minimizing your ego — your impact soars as your ego goes down; (6) you can choose to be rewired by the Holy Spirit rather than claim you're 'not wired that way'; and (7) your fruit tastes better growing on the trees of others.
How did Dennis handle the practical, structural side of the handoff — did he just walk away?
Dennis stayed at the church and remained on the church board for 14 years after leaving the lead role, only stepping off the board in December before the interview. He and the incoming pastor also updated the church's bylaws so that both the lead pastor and Dennis would hold board seats during the transition period, giving the new leader support while keeping guardrails in place.
What does Dennis say to pastors who claim they're just 'not wired' to hand off leadership?
Dennis says he isn't naturally wired that way either, but that wiring isn't the point — choices are. He says he chooses to follow Philippians 2:5, humbling himself and not treating his position as something to be grasped, and he chooses to let the Holy Spirit rewire him rather than use personality as an excuse to hold on.
Topics
successiongingerichchurch growthlegacypastoral leadershiphumilityphilippians 2