Daily Faith with Philip Cameron: Special Guest Craig Walker
About this episode
Craig Walker, lead pastor of Upward Church in Pensacola, Florida, joins Daily Faith to share a remarkable encounter with Jesus on an airplane returning from Africa — and the divine download that followed. During a two-hour-and-46-minute experience in the presence of Christ, Walker received a clear mandate: the global church must return to God's blueprint for building the New Testament church, not the corporate-American model that has drifted from its core mission. Walker draws on Ephesians 4, Psalm 110, and Revelation 4–5 to reveal what he calls the divine pattern for the church — fivefold ministry gifts serving as the foundation, not the pinnacle, of church structure. "If you're a fivefold minister, you're at the bottom," he explains. "This is the foundation that the church is built upon." He warns that the American church has insulated itself from its primary calling: evangelism and disciple-making. Overseeing more than 16,000 churches across 22 African nations, Walker's ministry has seen over 3.25 million people come to Christ in six years — discipling each new believer for an average of just 83 cents. For more information or to partner with this global mission, visit upwardchurch.org or wifijeus.org.
Part of our Church collection of conversations.
Quotes worth sharing
“I had a two-hour and 46-minute encounter with Jesus on that airplane. And it was the most amazing thing. I fell asleep instantly. I was in a dream for about 20 minutes of that. The Lord was speaking to me in that dream. But when I woke up, I was in the presence of Jesus. And he began to reveal to me every part of that dream. And what I loved about this time was I didn't just hear with my ears — I heard with every cell of my body. What Jesus was saying reverberated inside my spirit. It was like every part of me was a receptor.”
“A wheel spins around the axle, and the axle of the church is going to all the world and preaching the gospel, making disciples of all men. And we have so slipped away from that. And any wheel without an axle isn't a wheel anymore — it's just an out-of-control spinning sphere. And that is where we are at the moment.”
“We are living in the days that men with quills in darkened caves, with candlelight, wrote about — scratching out on parchment what they saw as a revelation when the Holy Ghost came upon them — how the world is going to be. And we are living in these days.”
What's Discussed
Pastor Craig Walker of Upward Church in Pensacola, Florida, shares how a two-hour-and-46-minute encounter with Jesus on a flight home from Africa confirmed God's blueprint for building the New Testament church. Drawing from Ephesians 4, Psalm 110, and Revelation 4–5, Walker argues that fivefold ministry gifts form the foundation — not the top — of church structure, and that the American church has drifted from its core mission of evangelism and disciple-making. Walker oversees more than 16,000 churches across 22 African nations and has seen 3.25 million people come to Christ in six years, discipling each convert for an average of 83 cents.
- Craig Walker's Global Church Oversight
- Divine Airplane Encounter with Jesus
- God's Blueprint vs. Corporate Church Models
- Psalm 110 and Fivefold Ministry Foundation
- Ephesians 4 and Revelation 4–5 Connected
- American Church Losing Its Evangelism Mission
- Discipling Converts for 83 Cents Each
Scripture in this episode
Episode Transcript
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Intro
Philip:Hey, happy New Year. My name is Philip Cameron, and we are delighted to have you with us. We have just had a tremendous Christmas and New Year. Yesterday, we had our first birthday for my youngest granddaughter, and it was absolutely fabulous.
Philip:So we're just glad to have you with us. I've got a great guest on the program today. I mean, a real man of God that is reaching the world. He has found a way to have video conferences that have tens of thousands of people. It's unbelievable what he's managed to do. He's gonna share with us what God's been doing. And he's opening up new vistas. I've learned something: if you are called of God, you are never short of doing stuff. You're never short. I can't understand people that don't have challenges in their life, because every morning I get up, I've got more challenges than I can shake a stick at, because God finds the hungry heart, the willing heart. And he says, you are the guy, you are the person I would call to this part of the vineyard. And Craig Walker is with us. He's from Upward Church in Pensacola, Pensacola, Florida.
Philip:And he has got some tremendous outreaches that I'm gonna have him share with you today. And also he's got a word from the Lord for you. If you love your pastor, get in contact with him right now, because I believe he's going to pass on and share some keys on how to grow the church and how to make the church more effective in the days we're living in. Let me tell you, I feel a totally different atmosphere in the air in this country. I sense real, real anticipation that something's going to break. And anticipation is what draws from the heart of God.
Philip:When you seek after him, you find him. One of the names of God is the Mighty Breast. And it's like a baby — it demands milk from the mom by being on the breast. And anticipation does exactly the same thing to the heart of God. When you believe God for something, the Bible says without faith it is impossible to please him. And we are just excited. I just feel that God's gonna do something very special this year, and I would love you to be a part of it with us.
Philip:As we introduce these great men and women of God, there are opportunities today. You can help us. Listen, this dear man, this pastor can reach a soul and disciple a soul into the kingdom of God, put them in a church, for less than a dollar. I think that's crazy. You can do something today to help this great ministry. And I believe God is going to — it's gonna be a great day. Share this program today. If you can, hit the like button and the subscribe button. If you could do that, that would really help us.
Philip:You can also go to YouTube — youtube.com/dailyfaith. And we've been remiss at talking about that, I believe, but we need to start talking this year more about that and grow that part. But we just are so grateful for you, and God is gonna speak to you today. If you've been looking for a word, hang around — this may be your day. I'm delighted you're here. Welcome to Daily Faith.
Philip:Hey, welcome to Daily Faith today. I'm so glad you're with us. My name is Philip Cameron, and we believe that God has put us together for a purpose. I'm astonished — aren't you? Aren't you amazed how God works? There's a song that just sings in my spirit constantly: he works in ways I cannot see. God has a purpose in your life. And if you become sensitized to ask him, show me your will, show me your ways, show me what you want me to do — let me tell you something, there is plenty to be doing in the kingdom of God. I can't understand people that are under-motivated in the world today.
Philip:We are living in the days that men with quills in darkened caves, with candlelight, wrote about — scratching out on parchment what they saw as a revelation when the Holy Ghost came upon them — how the world is going to be. And we are living in these days. So my encouragement to you today is this: don't say, well, there's nothing happening. Make something happen. I promise you this: if you dropped me off on a street corner anywhere on this planet and came back in six months or a year, I'd be there preaching the gospel. Folk will be getting saved. We'll be doing something for the kingdom of God. Because in me, it's Christ in me — that's the hope of glory. And I can change my atmosphere.
Philip:Your circumstance doesn't have to stay the way it is today, because God has given you the authority. He chose 12 men — unlearned, well, some were learned, others weren't — fishermen, guys that had no knowledge of all of this. And they changed the world for the kingdom, for God. And I just challenge you today, in the beginning of this year, here's a New Year's resolution for you: I'm going to get involved in the kingdom more than we've ever done before.
Philip:It's great. 35 years ago, I adopted a wee boy from an orphanage in Romania. This is how I got started in my journey. I had written a book that sold 300,000 copies. I was on all the TV shows, driving a Mercedes-Benz, and had a nice house and a swimming pool in the backyard. And I'd really nothing to do except speak on a Sunday, basically. And my dad called me from Scotland and said that babies are dying in Moldova, in Romania. And I said, wait, what?
Philip:And he made me go to Romania. And I walked into this orphanage — 200 screaming, starving kids. And upstairs, salon number five, I walked in. There were 30 kids, metal cribs painted with lead paint, horsehair mattresses covered in their own waste. And in the middle of that filth, I saw a wee face looking at me. And the Holy Ghost said, that's your son — as clearly as I'm talking to you. And I went down the row and picked him up.
Philip:And I said, I don't know who you are or where you came from or how you got here, but I will not rest until I come back and get you. And it took me a year — every six weeks, every month, I'd go back and forth whenever I could. I'd go back and spend a week just in the orphanage playing with them all day. And after a year, we got him. But we rebuilt the orphanage in that year. They had no toilets — we built toilets, a new roof, all new beds, replaced everything.
Philip:Changed all the kids' world. Instead of having them in big dorms, I made small rooms. And I went back years later when he was 15 — I adopted him when he was three — and I took Andrew back to see the orphanage where he came from when he was 15. And the nurses and the attendants and the doctor there in charge said to me, you changed the whole destiny of our kids. I didn't know that I was looking for Andrew, but in the meantime, all of this came out of just obedience. So I encourage you today, get in contact with what God wants you to do.
Philip:Today we've got an amazing place called Vatra Village. It is a village of houses — literally a village of houses — right on the coast, on the shore of the largest lake in the whole country. It was built for rich people to have a summer vacation home on the lake. And they poisoned that lake with chlorine to kill algae. And we bought these brand new unfinished houses that had fallen to pieces over nine years of neglect, and we totally rebuilt them again.
Philip:And today we've got young men and young women that we've rescued from traffickers — avoided them from going to the traffickers — and put them back in school, put the gospel in them. And what's happened is a whole group of these kids have become missionaries. So orphans have become missionaries in this horrible war that's going on in Ukraine. Our kids are constantly out there sharing the gospel. They go to villages — each of the houses in Vatra Village adopts a whole village, and for one year gets to know every poor person, every broken family, every widow. There's an evangelical church.
Philip:We connect to the evangelical church and transform a village. Orphans — that's why our ministry is called Orphan's Hands, because orphans' hands are doing the kingdom. It's amazing. They just sent me a video literally last Friday of their end-of-the-year stuff, what they've been doing. And it's just too good not to share with you. Watch this.
Philip:Orphan's Hands — what a great ministry. We just are so thankful to God for allowing us to have such an impact. Right now in Moldova, it is brutally cold. Weather can go down as low as minus 30 degrees. People freeze to death in that kind of weather. And in these villages, these poverty-stricken families are absolutely at the brink of breaking all through the winter season. This particular winter, we found a place that creates huge bags — industrialized bags of wood. Each bag can supply a family for a whole month. By doing so, you literally are taking away the panic of survival for a whole month.
Philip:They cost us — for a $65 gift, we'll provide — this costs us $65 per bag, and we deliver it right to the doorstep of these widows. When you're a widow, you can't chop wood. But to have a whole bag like that of wood that's given to you pre-chopped, ready to go in your fire — that is a life saver. And we are asking folk right now, if you could help us, a gift of $65 will allow us to take fear and dread away from a family for a whole month in Moldova. Let the Lord speak to your heart.
Philip:And it's really simple. Our address is really easy. It's PO Box 25, Clinton, Tennessee 37716. PO Box 25, Clinton, Tennessee 37716. By doing so, you are being God's hand extended. You can go and preach the gospel to someone — if they're freezing to death, you can go and tell them God loves them. If they're starving, you could meet that need first. Let them see the love of God at work, and then their hearts are wide open to hear the gospel.
Philip:You can make a miracle happen in a family's life today by giving one bag — $65. There's enough folk watching just now, and who will watch this as it's replayed and also seen on the networks, that can change hundreds of lives if you'll just say yes to him. So please, you can also give — if you go to our page, dailyfaith.tv, there's a giving page there where you can give right there. Or you can call us. That's how I would do it. Just call 833 and dial Daily Faith on your keypad. And a real live person will come on. We've got a hundred bags right now ready to go out there. We've put an order on that, and we are claiming for hundreds of these bags of wood all over the villages around us, that we can change and transform lives. So let the Lord talk to you.
Philip:I am delighted to have a dear friend, Craig Walker. When I first met him, we give pastors a big box of Walker's Shortbread, and we send it to him, and I said, hey, you've got a company — you're in good shape here. And he's a tremendous man of God, a great pastor of a tremendous church that is growing and doing amazing things. And his outreach is something that I am envious of — he is reaching so many people for the kingdom of God. Craig, I'm so glad to have you with us today on Daily Faith. How are you doing, my brother?
Craig Walker:I'm doing good. I got my cookies — thank you very much. I love those cookies.
Philip:They were made 20 miles away from where I was born. Isn't that crazy?
Craig Walker:Yeah. And on my DNA I'm finding out every month it seems like I'm more and more Scottish.
Philip:Oh yes. Each time you get an update. You can get more Scottish than Walker — trust me. I'm telling you now, there are two great products in Scotland: one great and one not so great. One is Walker's Shortbread, of course. And then one is Johnnie Walker's whiskey. And it's one of the biggest brands of whiskey in the world. So we'll leave the whiskey to one side and we'll fatten you up and stay with delicious, buttery shortbread.
Craig Walker's Global Church Oversight
Craig Walker:I am doing that. Yeah, that works. Thank you for joining with us today.
Philip:You are doing some crazy stuff in the kingdom of God, and I just admire you so much. And the Lord has been putting things on your heart and downloading stuff into your spirit regarding the church. So tell us what God's been showing you — where we are right now as far as the world we're living in.
Craig Walker:Yeah, so I live in two worlds. I'm a pastor in America, and then I am an overseeing pastor to churches all around the world. Specifically this last year, our African reach blew up. And so we now have over 16,000 churches — that's amazing — in Africa, 22 nations. And so I'm living in this world of America, and then I'm seeing the hunger and thirst and the rapid growth of the church around the world. We've just crossed 3,250,000 people for Christ in the last six years. And as it has moved so rapidly, I really began to get a caution in my spirit.
Divine Airplane Encounter with Jesus
Craig Walker:Don't let the American model for the church seep into this thing I'm doing around the world. And so the Lord began to put in my spirit a new book to present — predominantly I wrote it for the African church, the 22 nations that we're in — to build the church according to God's divine blueprint, and not according to a man's structure or corporate America. We've got to get the church back to a New Testament model of how it was supposed to be built. If you don't use a blueprint to build a house, what kind of house are you gonna have? If a seamstress doesn't have a pattern to make a dress or a pair of pants, what are they gonna look like?
Craig Walker:God has given us his blueprint for the church, and it's clear in scriptures. When God begins to unravel it for us, the mystery begins to be solved.
Philip:I've often said this — the American church is successful in numbers and wealth, but we don't have the power. And I think we've gotten off mission too, as far as evangelism and winning souls. Our predominant mission is go and make disciples, be fishers of men.
Craig Walker:And so I went to Africa this last time, and the Lord began to download an outline for this book. I get on the plane to come back, and Philip, I had a two-hour and 46-minute encounter with Jesus on that airplane. And it was the most amazing thing. I fell asleep instantly. I was in a dream for about 20 minutes of that. The Lord was speaking to me in that dream. But when I woke up, I was in the presence of Jesus. And he began to reveal to me every part of that dream. And what I loved about this time was I didn't just hear with my ears.
Craig Walker:I heard with every cell of my body. What Jesus was saying reverberated inside my spirit. It was like every part of me was a receptor — like your ears are a receptor for a voice, every part of me was a receptor for that. And I begged him several times not to leave. Several times I had an eye mask on and it was filled with tears, and I wouldn't dare take that eye mask off. I knew I was in the presence of Jesus. I went to the gates of heaven. Amazing what God did there.
Craig Walker:But what I want your viewers to hear today is that God clearly spoke to me, among other things, that he has given us a blueprint in his word for building his church. And if the church wants to function at its highest efficiency, we've got to go back and build the church according to the pattern that he gave. And so Ephesians chapter four, Psalm 110, and Revelation four and five — when you begin to piece those together with revelation, you begin to see, wow, this is really the pattern of God.
God's Blueprint vs. Corporate Church Models
Craig Walker:I believe that the scroll that the slain Lamb of God opened in Revelation four and five — remember, that scroll is handed, John begins to weep and says no one's worthy to open it, and the angel says don't weep, the slain Lamb of God has been found worthy — I believe that we can deduce from scripture at least a portion of what was in that scroll. And I believe that scroll contained the blueprints for building a New Testament church from scriptures. I've come to that conclusion.
Philip:I hope you're writing this into a book. I hope this is something pastors can avail themselves of.
Craig Walker:We are finishing that new book right now. And that's why I wrote this book — because I don't know if America, the old wineskin, will make the shift. I hope they will. But predominantly I wrote it because we are in these 22 nations, the gospel spreading like fire in Pakistan as well. And we still have a chance to build this and keep it from going south. We can build it according to the pattern of the New Testament model. And I believe if we do that, we will save the kingdom from a loss — and we cannot go the same path. We can learn from the mistakes that we've made in the West.
Philip:I find — I was reading a long time ago about the church in Nigeria, how some of the richest pastors in the world are Nigerians — multi, multi hundreds of millions of dollars. And I was disappointed. I'm thinking, man, they've taken the one aspect of the church that we have in America. And I believe in being blessed — we can only do what we do as we are blessed. But there comes a limit and a level of, hold on a second, just whoa, just a minute. And you're right. We need to realize — he can't reinvent the church, because he'll build the church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. But we can realize what the template of the church is meant to be and how the church is meant to function — way better than what I think is the modern-day success story of the church.
Craig Walker:Psalm 110 is the Old Testament passage most quoted in the New Testament. Well, that alone tells you this is a significant chapter in the word of God. And it starts, the Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool. Your people will be willing volunteers in the day of power. I'll extend your scepter through your church. And so Psalm 110 was a view before it happened — Jesus had not been slain yet. When did he sit at the right hand of the Father? When was this scepter extended through the church? It was after his resurrection. So Psalm 110 gives us a view of what's going to come.
Psalm 110 and Fivefold Ministry Foundation
Craig Walker:And then we get over to Ephesians chapter four. And the key word in all this is when — when he ascended on high, he gave gifts to men. Well, when did he ascend? We know when he ascended — it was after his resurrection. And it says in Ephesians four, he gave gifts to men: the fivefold ministry gifts, the leadership, if you will, the foundation. Not the top — we're not at the top. If you're a fivefold minister, you're at the bottom. This is the foundation that the church is built upon.
Philip:That is so true. And we've turned it upside down and said, oh, you guys are at the top. No, they're not at the top. They should be at the bottom — the servant to all.
Ephesians 4 and Revelation 4–5 Connected
Craig Walker:And so when we see that, then we go to Revelation four and five. And this is real time — that John saw the slain Lamb of God. And when you start looking at the different views — before, during, and after — all these three views, and you put them together, it's really clear that God has designed his church to be built on fivefold ministry and with the mission of reaching souls for Jesus Christ.
American Church Losing Its Evangelism Mission
Philip:Absolutely. The church in America has got to become more spiritual. It just has to become more spiritual. I often look at the church as I travel across the spectrum, and I am astonished at how little of the gospel is left in the church. We've become so adept at everything else except the core. A wheel spins around the axle, and the axle of the church is going to all the world and preaching the gospel, making disciples of all men. And we have so slipped away from that. And any wheel without an axle isn't a wheel anymore — it's just an out-of-control spinning sphere. And that is where we are at the moment.
Craig Walker:Because that hub gets isolated. And churches that are not reaching into the world — they're isolated in their world, and they get insulated, and this is all that matters now. But you know, the view that I have had as a pastor locally in America, and then what I see — people walk for days to get to a crusade, hardly any food, the hunger, what they will do — then I'm back in my pulpit on Sunday in America, and then I'm back into a crusade to hundreds of thousands of people. And you live in this world, you feel schizophrenic at times.
Philip:I know exactly how you feel. And what you realize is the church in America has insulated itself from the mission of what we were called to do. We are called to reach the world and take the gospel. Lord Jesus, you are telling the truth. I want you to — there are folk watching that you shared with me earlier, that you can disciple — not just get someone saved, but disciple them, plant them in a church — for just over 80 cents. Is that right?
Discipling Converts for 83 Cents Each
Craig Walker:83 cents is what our average is. And I'll say this because I never want to dis the church — the church is God's idea. It's not man's idea. The church is God's idea. Any time you get new converts won to Jesus — Leslie, my wife, and I were in China as missionaries, and we would win people to Jesus. Well, it's just natural — new believers want to get together with other believers. That's the church. And so when the church is in place, you've made a convert, get them with other believers, get them training, get them resources, and then they grow and they go and do the same.
Philip:So someone — it's not rocket science. We've got less than two minutes left. Someone watching today — I know the Holy Ghost says challenge their spirit. How can they get in contact with you to be a part of this crusade? You tell me — $8 or a $10 offering can reach 10 folk and disciple 10 folk in the church. A hundred dollars, a thousand dollars. And sadly, I'm in the same situation — you are limited in your outreach by funds. Tell us how people can get in contact with you. We've got just over a minute left.
Craig Walker:Go to upwardchurch.org and you can give a gift there designated for Africa, and every dime of that will go to that. Or you can go to wifijeus.org and you can do the same there, and everything that comes in goes straight to the mission field.
Philip:Yeah, it's up on your screen right this minute. I pray that you'll do this today, that you'll say, I want in. In the beginning of 2025, I want to be a part of winning someone to Jesus. I want, before January ends, to know that I led someone to Jesus. A gift of 83 cents — which is one person. Craig, thank you so much for being with us. We love you. We look forward to being with you again down in Pensacola. If you're anywhere near Pensacola, it's on Davis Highway — Upward Church. You go there and you'll be blessed of God by my friend. Thank you for being with us. God bless you.
For over 25 years, the Cameron family has been changing the lives of orphans in Romania and Moldova — from providing running water, flushing toilets, and clean wells, to coal for heat, new windows, as well as food and clothing. They champion the physical needs of the orphans in these broken and desolate countries. Many of Moldova's orphans are saved from the horrors of trafficking through homes founded by the Camerons. And in the process, orphans become daughters and sons. They come to know their heavenly Father and are forever changed by the love of Jesus. God helped the Camerons lift these amazing young men and women out of darkness — now no longer orphans. They want to return and invade that very same darkness with the light of Jesus Christ. The Orphan's Hands equips these daughters and sons to become missionaries. Your monthly gift of $31 will allow us to rescue and take in more girls and boys, saving them from the hell of human trafficking. Your monthly partnership will allow us to care for those in the Orphan's Hands homes in Moldova and Ukraine. If you want to join Philip and Chrissy in taking care of these precious young people, please contact us today by calling 833 Daily Faith. You can also give by going online to www.dailyfaith.tv, or by writing to PO Box 25, Clinton, Tennessee 37716. So many lives depend on what we do. Thank you for loving the lost.
Common questions
How many churches and people has Craig Walker's ministry reached around the world?
Craig says his African outreach alone has grown to over 16,000 churches across 22 nations, and in the last six years his ministry has seen more than 3.25 million people come to Christ. He also notes the gospel is spreading rapidly in Pakistan as well.
What was Craig Walker's two-hour encounter with Jesus on the airplane about?
Craig describes falling asleep on a flight back from Africa and entering what he calls a two-hour and 46-minute encounter with Jesus. He says he heard Jesus not just with his ears but with every cell of his body, was moved to tears, and received a clear revelation about God's blueprint for building the New Testament church — the core message behind the book he is now finishing.
What scriptures does Craig Walker say reveal God's blueprint for the church?
Craig points to three key passages: Psalm 110 (the most-quoted Old Testament chapter in the New Testament, which he says previews Christ's ascension and the extension of his authority through the church), Ephesians 4 (which describes the fivefold ministry gifts as the foundation — not the top — of the church), and Revelation 4 and 5 (the scroll opened by the slain Lamb). He argues that piecing these together reveals the pattern God intended for building his church.
Why is Craig Walker worried about the American church model spreading to Africa?
Craig says he felt a clear caution in his spirit not to let the American church model seep into his global work. He observes that the American church has drifted from its core mission of soul-winning and discipleship, becoming insulated from the world, and he wants the rapidly growing African church to be built on the New Testament blueprint before it goes down the same path.
How much does it cost Craig Walker's ministry to win and disciple one person into a church?
Craig says their average cost to win a convert to Jesus, disciple them, and plant them in a church is 83 cents per person. People can give toward this work at upwardchurch.org or wifijeus.org, with every donation going directly to the mission field.
Topics
craig walkerupward churchfivefold ministryafrica church growthnew testament modeldisciple makingglobal missions